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Post by Mofo on Aug 23, 2012 10:16:29 GMT -7
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Post by kyrre on Aug 23, 2012 10:31:31 GMT -7
The US - and other countries - have been at war many times - and in theory the number of suicides should have been substantial back then as well, but a few inputs:
PTSD is real - and it was real back in the days as well. It's just that one didn't have a name for it.
What was considered "a bad experience" back in the days will today qualify as a PTSD. People are being diagnosed - in other words told that they are sick. Back then you had some nerve problems and were given some pills that would keep you calm - and unsuicidal.
- Suicide is more accepted as a "way out" than it used to be. Perhaps because it is simply more known as an option.
- People's problems are more accepted for being traumatising than what they used to be. And people's problems ARE more traumatising, because people have other issues to worry about than before. Today it's a full package of what kind of person you want to be and there are so many issues that you have to deal with that would be ignored before. Back then the future would more or less be laid out for you. Get a wife, get kids, do your job, get your pension, get a winnebago. These days people are so concerned about everything that they spend most of their brain activities on "issues" which leaves less room for, perhaps, rationalism.
Anyway; interesting topic.
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Post by Peter on Aug 23, 2012 11:40:42 GMT -7
Almost all suicides in the military are young, and isn't suicide a leading cause of death in young people period?
I think it is.
Anyway, being in the military is a job you just don't walk away from, like Mcdonald's.
Your young, lonely, far from home, barracked with people who probobly call you weak, slack and a loser. You can't go home.
And, there is Iraq, Afganistan, or maybe even New Jersey coming your way.
Only one way out, and lots of things around to help you on your way.
This all said, I have lost 2 friends in the last 24 months to suicide. before that...others.
Some did it in 2 seconds, others did it over 20 plus years.
So, it surrounds me.
That said, I am leaving work tonight and heading for the river. My nieghbor has been asking me to come fly fishing with him.
There is a section of the Bow where he caught and released over 15 rainbows last night.
Quite a hatch going on...
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Post by Mofo on Aug 23, 2012 12:18:09 GMT -7
True. But an interesting, key point: It wasn't as easy as saying, "they all have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder," because a significant number of the soldiers who were killing themselves had never even seen combat. That's what makes it truly frightening: it's not just people killing themselves to escape combat trauma, it's people killing themselves because... nobody knows. Is it the prospect of seeing combat? Are basic conditions so bad that death is better than a barracks? Is the military enlisting a higher than average proportion of individuals with pre-existing mental health issues? Nobody knows. |
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Post by Peter on Aug 23, 2012 13:29:16 GMT -7
Is the military enlisting a higher than average proportion of individuals with pre-existing mental health issues? Not if they know about it prior.....but sometimes these things can manifest themselves in a military enviroment.... Corporal Klinger, for example. |
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Post by colin on Aug 23, 2012 13:54:32 GMT -7
Suicide is very common but not specific to young people. The pressures to perform in military life can be oppressive and expectations within ourselves, through the roof.
Those with suspected "weaknesses" wash out during basic or aren't allowed to enlist at all.
Sometimes, but not always you'd be surprised at those who take their own lives, it's a real shame.
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Post by davefleming on Aug 24, 2012 5:18:10 GMT -7
I think Colin's point is something worth considering.
Obviously, I only have a UK perspective on this, but I think the pressure, expectation and discipline faced in the Armed Forces and that faced in school and general civillian life is very different to that experienced (say) 40 or 50 years ago.
Today's young people have a very different upbringing to the way I was 30 years ago. I wonder if in many cases, young people can't cope with that sudden transition to a much more pressurised world.
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Post by gnat on Aug 24, 2012 8:10:18 GMT -7
I also wonder if drugs, not illegal, are playing a part. Even some acne medications have been implicated in suicide threats and actual suicide.
I think shrinks these days are way to quick to medicate symptoms rather than allow them to run there natural course. I've read many times that most mental disorders barring Schizophrenia and Bipolar disorders will clear themselves in 6 months time left untreated. Disclaimer here: I don't pretend to be a psychologist/psychiatrist. But I also see and hear about increase in suicides when taking certain mood elevating drugs.
Really makes you wonder whats going on there.
Gnat
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Post by timmay on Aug 24, 2012 8:30:01 GMT -7
Not making light of the situation here. Drugs? Makes me think of Can-D and Chew-Z. No extra points if you figure out where those come from. I wonder if society's habits of over protecting young people through the use of Political Correctness might have something to do with it? Take certain people and shield them from the realities of life and then dumping them into what is real can be very traumatizing. I've seen some of this. I am not just talking through my hat. Timmay!
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